kartikiran
07-11 11:07 AM
Not to put any dampers here, but this is extremely frustrating for the EB3 India folks. I mean how freakin long do WE have to wait before we get our turn!
I agree with eb3_nepa...waiting with EB3 PD March 2002..original labor certification...people who applied after me getting citizenships...it is frustrating.
I agree with eb3_nepa...waiting with EB3 PD March 2002..original labor certification...people who applied after me getting citizenships...it is frustrating.
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gg10004
03-17 10:08 PM
IRS faq clearly states that everyone on the tax return should have ssn. Even if one has ITIN no one will get the extra refund. Please read IRS faqs
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=179181,00.html
I myself am filing for extension to get ssn for my wife, i have her EAD but she is in India, so have to wait for her to come back and file for ssn.
Q. I file using an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). Can I still get a stimulus payment?
A: No. The law does not allow stimulus payments to people who file a return using an ITIN. A taxpayer must have a valid Social Security Number to qualify for the stimulus payment. If married filing jointly, both taxpayers must have a valid Social Security Number. And children must have valid Social Security Numbers to be eligible as qualifying children.
Q. I have an ITIN, but my spouse has a valid Social Security number. Can we get a payment?
A. If you and your spouse file a joint return, you will not get a stimulus payment. If your spouse files a separate return, your spouse may qualify for a payment, based on his or her income deductions and credits.
Q. If I have a valid Social Security Number and my child has an ITIN, do I get extra money for the child?
A. No. To qualify for the extra credit for qualifying children, not only do the taxpayer and spouse, if filing jointly, need valid Social Security Numbers, but the qualifying child must also have a valid Social Security Number.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=179181,00.html
I myself am filing for extension to get ssn for my wife, i have her EAD but she is in India, so have to wait for her to come back and file for ssn.
Q. I file using an individual taxpayer identification number (ITIN). Can I still get a stimulus payment?
A: No. The law does not allow stimulus payments to people who file a return using an ITIN. A taxpayer must have a valid Social Security Number to qualify for the stimulus payment. If married filing jointly, both taxpayers must have a valid Social Security Number. And children must have valid Social Security Numbers to be eligible as qualifying children.
Q. I have an ITIN, but my spouse has a valid Social Security number. Can we get a payment?
A. If you and your spouse file a joint return, you will not get a stimulus payment. If your spouse files a separate return, your spouse may qualify for a payment, based on his or her income deductions and credits.
Q. If I have a valid Social Security Number and my child has an ITIN, do I get extra money for the child?
A. No. To qualify for the extra credit for qualifying children, not only do the taxpayer and spouse, if filing jointly, need valid Social Security Numbers, but the qualifying child must also have a valid Social Security Number.
Tshelar
06-24 12:55 PM
Hasn't this been discussed already?
It does not make a difference to America, if a few hundred thousand foreign workers get their GCs today or 10 years later. The people America would really be concerned about are outstanding researchers, but then these people fall in the EB1 category which is always current and so they have no cause for complaint. The other category that the US is concerned about is cheap and illegal labor, but that is not related to GCs. So in short, there is nothing about the Eb2/Eb3 GC backlog that America needs to worry about.
The delay causes anxiety & frustration only for us applicants. So the impact is only on us.
Every year H1B quota is getting filled withing few days to a week. Majority of H1B applicants eventually land up applying GC in EB2/EB3 category, so america has nothing to lose as it keeps getting the workforce it needs every year.
Now, in an unlikley scenario in 2009 the H1B quota doesn't get filled then we can say that america is losing.
It does not make a difference to America, if a few hundred thousand foreign workers get their GCs today or 10 years later. The people America would really be concerned about are outstanding researchers, but then these people fall in the EB1 category which is always current and so they have no cause for complaint. The other category that the US is concerned about is cheap and illegal labor, but that is not related to GCs. So in short, there is nothing about the Eb2/Eb3 GC backlog that America needs to worry about.
The delay causes anxiety & frustration only for us applicants. So the impact is only on us.
Every year H1B quota is getting filled withing few days to a week. Majority of H1B applicants eventually land up applying GC in EB2/EB3 category, so america has nothing to lose as it keeps getting the workforce it needs every year.
Now, in an unlikley scenario in 2009 the H1B quota doesn't get filled then we can say that america is losing.
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praky
09-11 11:02 PM
Sent the book...See changes in the original msg.
http://www.amazon.com/Brighter-Child-Math-Preschool-Workbooks/dp/076967609X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221181573&sr=1-2
*****************************
TO
The Honorable Emilio T. Gonzalez (Director)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service
20 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20529
***************
My Message:
Hon. Mr. Gonzalez,
I would like to register my protest with you for not following an orderly method when approving I-485 applications. In the last two months, while the priority dates were current for several applicants from India in the EB2 category, most applications with later priority dates and later receipt dates were approved by USICS, causing deep concern and grief among those waiting patiently in the line before them.
This significantly reduces our confidence in the system. Thus, I am sending you this letter with a book as a symbol of protest and with the hope that USCIS will deal fairly with all the applicants as per the rules and regulations.
Thanks
My Name
****************
Note: On Amazon you must select gift option to add the message. No need to wrap it.
Singhsa3,
I believe Gonzalez resigned from the director of USCIS effective April 18,2008. We should be instead sending the letter to following:
Jonathan Scharfen, Acting Director, USCIS
Michael Aytes, Acting Deputy Director, USCIS
Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
http://www.amazon.com/Brighter-Child-Math-Preschool-Workbooks/dp/076967609X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221181573&sr=1-2
*****************************
TO
The Honorable Emilio T. Gonzalez (Director)
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service
20 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20529
***************
My Message:
Hon. Mr. Gonzalez,
I would like to register my protest with you for not following an orderly method when approving I-485 applications. In the last two months, while the priority dates were current for several applicants from India in the EB2 category, most applications with later priority dates and later receipt dates were approved by USICS, causing deep concern and grief among those waiting patiently in the line before them.
This significantly reduces our confidence in the system. Thus, I am sending you this letter with a book as a symbol of protest and with the hope that USCIS will deal fairly with all the applicants as per the rules and regulations.
Thanks
My Name
****************
Note: On Amazon you must select gift option to add the message. No need to wrap it.
Singhsa3,
I believe Gonzalez resigned from the director of USCIS effective April 18,2008. We should be instead sending the letter to following:
Jonathan Scharfen, Acting Director, USCIS
Michael Aytes, Acting Deputy Director, USCIS
Pls correct me if I'm wrong.
more...
smuggymba
08-12 12:48 PM
I totally agree that is a very unfair measure against the whole H1-B community and all of us here especially for lots of us who come from large Indian technology companies. Having said that, don�t we all agree that the mess we are in including the Green Card retrogression is driven by the fact that this H1-B system was grossly misused by the unscrupulous body shops and consulting companies run primarily by Indians in US. These companies not only reduced the quality of Indian Professionals which was sort after by American Technology companies but also has made the skill set of every Indian professional seeking a job doubtful because of the widespread practice of dressing up the resumes. I am sure this had to happen sooner or later and unfortunately the ethical Indian companies have also got caught in this.
I agree but how will this change the world. The 2K will now be transferred to the employee; earlier employee paid 1000, now he will pay 3000. That does not solve the problem.
I agree but how will this change the world. The 2K will now be transferred to the employee; earlier employee paid 1000, now he will pay 3000. That does not solve the problem.
m79
08-11 08:16 PM
I am July 2nd filer, Got finger print notice from NSC with notice dated 8/7.
Hi, Congrats,
Did you get the receipt notices
Hi, Congrats,
Did you get the receipt notices
more...
delhiguy79
08-15 11:10 AM
If its 2001 or 2003 ... ppl like me who r in EB 3 (with PD March 2007) will not get GC for next 4-5 yrs until and unless they spill Eb 1 cases evenly to Eb2 and Eb3...which is next to impossible :eek:
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Junky
09-10 08:07 AM
Damn :mad:, I can't believe that USCIS will going to waste visa numbers again. Therefore friends please call congressmen to support HR5882.
Elton Gallegly (R-Calif.)202- 225-5811
Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)202- 225-3906 (NOT IN FAVOR)
Dan Lungren (R-Calif.)202- 225-5716
Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) 202-225-5911
Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.)202- 225-4176
Rick Boucher (D-Va.) 202-225-3861
Robert C. Scott (D-Va.) (202) 225-8351
Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.)202- 225-5431
J. Randy Forbes (R-Va.)202- 225-6365
Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) 202-225-2706
Ric Keller (R-Fla.)202- 225-2176
Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) 202-225-3035
Lamar S. Smith (R-Texas), Ranking Member 202- 225-6906/ 202- 225-4236
Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) 202-225-2676
Betty Sutton (D-Ohio) 202-225-3401
Chris Cannon (R-Utah)202- 225-7751
Steve Chabot (R-Ohio) 202-225-2216
Howard Coble (R-N.C.) 202-225-3065
Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.)202- 225-3265
John Conyers (D-Mich.), Chairman 202-225-5126
William D. Delahunt (D-Mass.)202- 225-3111
Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) 202-225-4755
Trent Franks (R-Ariz.)202- 225-4576
Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.)202- 225-8203
Steve King (R-Iowa)202- 225-4426 (NOT IN FAVOR)
Mike Pence (R-Ind.) 202-225-3021
Howard L. Berman (D-Calif.) 202-225-4695
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) 202-225-7931 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member new_horizon)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) 202- 225-2906 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV members cnag & Prashant)
Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) 202-225-2201 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member little_willy)
Anthony D. Weiner (D-N.Y.) 202-225-6616 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Robert Wexler (D-Fla.) 202-225-3001 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) 202-225-1605 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.)202- 225-3072 (ALREADY SPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) 202-225-5101 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.) 202-225-6676 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) 202-225-5635 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Artur Davis (D-Ala.) 202-225-2665 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas)202- 225-3816 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Melvin L. Watt (D-N.C.)202- 225-1510 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Data available in Mumbai consulate website
http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/cut_off_dates.html
Category India Most Other Countries
F1 15 April 2002 15 April 2002
FX 1 May 2001 1 May 2001
F2A 1 January 2004 1 January 2004
F2B 15 December 1999 15 December 1999
F3 22 June 2000 22 June 2000
F4 22 May 1997 22 October 1997
E1 Current Current
E2 1 April 2003 Current
E3 1 July 2001 1 January 2005
EW 1 Janurary 2003 1 Janurary 2003
E4 Current Current
E4-Religious Current Current
Elton Gallegly (R-Calif.)202- 225-5811
Darrell Issa (R-Calif.)202- 225-3906 (NOT IN FAVOR)
Dan Lungren (R-Calif.)202- 225-5716
Brad Sherman (D-Calif.) 202-225-5911
Adam B. Schiff (D-Calif.)202- 225-4176
Rick Boucher (D-Va.) 202-225-3861
Robert C. Scott (D-Va.) (202) 225-8351
Bob Goodlatte (R-Va.)202- 225-5431
J. Randy Forbes (R-Va.)202- 225-6365
Tom Feeney (R-Fla.) 202-225-2706
Ric Keller (R-Fla.)202- 225-2176
Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) 202-225-3035
Lamar S. Smith (R-Texas), Ranking Member 202- 225-6906/ 202- 225-4236
Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) 202-225-2676
Betty Sutton (D-Ohio) 202-225-3401
Chris Cannon (R-Utah)202- 225-7751
Steve Chabot (R-Ohio) 202-225-2216
Howard Coble (R-N.C.) 202-225-3065
Steve Cohen (D-Tenn.)202- 225-3265
John Conyers (D-Mich.), Chairman 202-225-5126
William D. Delahunt (D-Mass.)202- 225-3111
Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) 202-225-4755
Trent Franks (R-Ariz.)202- 225-4576
Luis Gutierrez (D-Ill.)202- 225-8203
Steve King (R-Iowa)202- 225-4426 (NOT IN FAVOR)
Mike Pence (R-Ind.) 202-225-3021
Howard L. Berman (D-Calif.) 202-225-4695
Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) 202-225-7931 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member new_horizon)
Tammy Baldwin (D-Wis.) 202- 225-2906 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV members cnag & Prashant)
Maxine Waters (D-Calif.) 202-225-2201 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member little_willy)
Anthony D. Weiner (D-N.Y.) 202-225-6616 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Robert Wexler (D-Fla.) 202-225-3001 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Hank Johnson (D-Ga.) 202-225-1605 (IN FAVOR - Reported by IV member punjabi77)
Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.)202- 225-3072 (ALREADY SPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Jim Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) 202-225-5101 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Linda Sanchez (D-Calif.) 202-225-6676 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.) 202-225-5635 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Artur Davis (D-Ala.) 202-225-2665 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-Texas)202- 225-3816 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Melvin L. Watt (D-N.C.)202- 225-1510 (ALREADY COSPONSOR DO NOT CALL)
Data available in Mumbai consulate website
http://mumbai.usconsulate.gov/cut_off_dates.html
Category India Most Other Countries
F1 15 April 2002 15 April 2002
FX 1 May 2001 1 May 2001
F2A 1 January 2004 1 January 2004
F2B 15 December 1999 15 December 1999
F3 22 June 2000 22 June 2000
F4 22 May 1997 22 October 1997
E1 Current Current
E2 1 April 2003 Current
E3 1 July 2001 1 January 2005
EW 1 Janurary 2003 1 Janurary 2003
E4 Current Current
E4-Religious Current Current
more...
trailblazer
07-21 03:45 PM
Joined IV recently. i am in Ventura county
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mkashif4
10-05 10:52 AM
14 years and still waiting for GC. Switched several companies and working on EAD now.
more...
Ramba
10-21 06:18 PM
Thanks Ramba for your insights.
Whatever the reasons - its apparent USCIS is not following the AC21 regulations and it is not fair. I believe, AC21 regulations are made with an objective of improving immigration rules for 21st century (and thus the name American Competetiveness for 21st century) and provide some mobility for the applicants while their GC applications are pending. The delay in application processing is still relevant (actually its more severe) - irrespective of whether its caused by processing or because of lack of visa numbers. AC21 regulations never mentioned about the origin of delay or the longivity of applicant with original company. Changing interpretation of a rule they made, that too without notice is unfair and maybe even unlawful.
So far I was thinking that its a case of misinformed IO rejecting I485 once they see a I140 revocation. But rejecting MTR on the grounds that employee has left the company on his/her own and so does not have intent of continuing in the job is just plain twisting of their own rules. And we need a much bigger effort - if its a case of a few misinformed USCIS employees incorrectly rejecting I485 - then it could have been fixed with a low key effort that we are doing. We are seeing more rejections based on unknown "interpretations" - and even MTR getting rejected - it kind of gives a feeling that they have a bigger agenda here and we need to fight on a bigger scale.
If a guy lawfully changed the job after 180 days of 485 filing, it is remain valid even if employer revokes already approved 140. Only solution to overcome this MTR, is taking this to court. In the case of dispute between employee and employer regarding "intent", the employee will have more leverage if he had a considerable period of employment relationship sponsor.
Whatever the reasons - its apparent USCIS is not following the AC21 regulations and it is not fair. I believe, AC21 regulations are made with an objective of improving immigration rules for 21st century (and thus the name American Competetiveness for 21st century) and provide some mobility for the applicants while their GC applications are pending. The delay in application processing is still relevant (actually its more severe) - irrespective of whether its caused by processing or because of lack of visa numbers. AC21 regulations never mentioned about the origin of delay or the longivity of applicant with original company. Changing interpretation of a rule they made, that too without notice is unfair and maybe even unlawful.
So far I was thinking that its a case of misinformed IO rejecting I485 once they see a I140 revocation. But rejecting MTR on the grounds that employee has left the company on his/her own and so does not have intent of continuing in the job is just plain twisting of their own rules. And we need a much bigger effort - if its a case of a few misinformed USCIS employees incorrectly rejecting I485 - then it could have been fixed with a low key effort that we are doing. We are seeing more rejections based on unknown "interpretations" - and even MTR getting rejected - it kind of gives a feeling that they have a bigger agenda here and we need to fight on a bigger scale.
If a guy lawfully changed the job after 180 days of 485 filing, it is remain valid even if employer revokes already approved 140. Only solution to overcome this MTR, is taking this to court. In the case of dispute between employee and employer regarding "intent", the employee will have more leverage if he had a considerable period of employment relationship sponsor.
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SEP03NY
08-12 04:05 PM
One of my friend got receipt for I-140 and I-1485, He send on July 30th to Nebraska Service center. I have send on the 2nd July still waiting.
Thanks
Thanks
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villamonte6100
04-03 08:40 AM
Well said. I also wonder how that fellow has 4 greens. Funny forum. No fairness.
Buddyinusa,
I thought that nobody in this forum thinks properly, but you came to the rescue.
Thank you.
It seems that everytime you make a comment/opinion on somebody's comments, somebody will always fire back with a very nasty and inappropriate reply. I don't understand that. I thought IV is an open forum that you can exchange opinions, but it seems that everytime you make your own, people start to gang up on you if your opinion is against theirs, no matter how you phrase it properly.
They can just reply in an educated way instead of abusing or using nasty and harsh words.
But you are thinking member.
Keep it that way.
Buddyinusa,
I thought that nobody in this forum thinks properly, but you came to the rescue.
Thank you.
It seems that everytime you make a comment/opinion on somebody's comments, somebody will always fire back with a very nasty and inappropriate reply. I don't understand that. I thought IV is an open forum that you can exchange opinions, but it seems that everytime you make your own, people start to gang up on you if your opinion is against theirs, no matter how you phrase it properly.
They can just reply in an educated way instead of abusing or using nasty and harsh words.
But you are thinking member.
Keep it that way.
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I_need_GC
02-19 10:51 AM
Today I got my first soft LUD on my case. Last week I got a letter from USCIS that they had approved to expedite my case. I would rather have seen the AP but the waiting game continues. :eek:
Yesterday I went to the Local INS office after making an infopass appointment. Requested the IO to expedite my AP he looked at current processing dates for Nebraska Center Aug 15 I applied on July 20 INS process date on receipt notice August 25. He told me they would start looking at my case soon. I mentioned to him I need it expedited he asked why I showed him a letter from employer that I needed to travel outside us he said its not life death emergency. I insisted that if i didn't go I would get fired lose my job, he wait let me check with manager after 20 minutes he came back and said his manager agrees to process as emergency. He took all my original supporting documents and told me he was going to fax them to Nebraska center and also email to them. I mentioned to him that I have to leave by Feb 11 again he went to his manager and he said thats the best I can do. He took my phone number. I have not heard for INS no LUD on my case yet. If i don't leave by feb 17 kiss my job good bye. Anything else you guys recommend i can do. I also faxed the Nebraska center a request expedite still haven't hear or seen anything. :(
Your inputs are welcomes.
Yesterday I went to the Local INS office after making an infopass appointment. Requested the IO to expedite my AP he looked at current processing dates for Nebraska Center Aug 15 I applied on July 20 INS process date on receipt notice August 25. He told me they would start looking at my case soon. I mentioned to him I need it expedited he asked why I showed him a letter from employer that I needed to travel outside us he said its not life death emergency. I insisted that if i didn't go I would get fired lose my job, he wait let me check with manager after 20 minutes he came back and said his manager agrees to process as emergency. He took all my original supporting documents and told me he was going to fax them to Nebraska center and also email to them. I mentioned to him that I have to leave by Feb 11 again he went to his manager and he said thats the best I can do. He took my phone number. I have not heard for INS no LUD on my case yet. If i don't leave by feb 17 kiss my job good bye. Anything else you guys recommend i can do. I also faxed the Nebraska center a request expedite still haven't hear or seen anything. :(
Your inputs are welcomes.
more...
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needhelp!
09-11 12:57 PM
1, mamthavijai, theMan, lccleared, GC2015
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glub
07-18 07:39 PM
Even though future VISA bulletins show PD way earlier than your PD, your I-485 may get approved since you are in the system.
So, who ever gets to apply I-485 are in much better shape than people with PDs in 2002 or 2003 but do not file I-485 now.
REMEMBER, USCIS USUALLY DO NOT FOLLOW ORDER AND YOU HAVE TO BE VERY LUCKY OTHER THAN TURNING ALL THE RIGHT PAPER WORK.
This is contrary to every description of the process that I have read so far... I don't believe your I-485 will get approved just because it is in the system, the PD has to be current at the time of processing...
So, who ever gets to apply I-485 are in much better shape than people with PDs in 2002 or 2003 but do not file I-485 now.
REMEMBER, USCIS USUALLY DO NOT FOLLOW ORDER AND YOU HAVE TO BE VERY LUCKY OTHER THAN TURNING ALL THE RIGHT PAPER WORK.
This is contrary to every description of the process that I have read so far... I don't believe your I-485 will get approved just because it is in the system, the PD has to be current at the time of processing...
more...
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everonh1
07-22 12:25 PM
Isnt there a concept of an interim EAD.
I heard if you dont get EAD within 90 days,you can go to your local USCIS office and get an interim EAD?
I heard if you dont get EAD within 90 days,you can go to your local USCIS office and get an interim EAD?
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vsk74
01-05 12:54 PM
Hi,
I applied for labor certification in Dec2004 .I got a 45 day letter 6 months back.My application in Philadelphia back log center.When i am seeing the status it is showing IN PROCESS.Can anyone tell me what will be the time frame after receiving 45 day letter.Intially i applied from FLORIDA.Can anyone tell me wat is current processing time.
I applied for labor certification in Dec2004 .I got a 45 day letter 6 months back.My application in Philadelphia back log center.When i am seeing the status it is showing IN PROCESS.Can anyone tell me what will be the time frame after receiving 45 day letter.Intially i applied from FLORIDA.Can anyone tell me wat is current processing time.
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newbee7
07-06 06:55 AM
Can you please change the headling in Digg to:
Homeland security compromised in mad rush to process Green Cards
Homeland security compromised in mad rush to process Green Cards
Humhongekamyab
09-10 11:49 AM
I don't know if anybody has noticed it but the dates for EB-2 for VB October 2007 was April 1, 2004 and for VB October 2008 is April 1, 2003. That is a retrogression of 1 year - not good. :mad:
singhsa3
09-12 02:23 PM
Looks like backward clock is the most popular idea so far.
Now,
There are two scenarios someone suggested to me in the office:
Scenario 1: Send these indiviudually (one per person).
Scenario 2: Send collectively a set of 10 backward clocks, with a greivance/protest letter , where as 10 represents month of October and signed by IV.
Now,
There are two scenarios someone suggested to me in the office:
Scenario 1: Send these indiviudually (one per person).
Scenario 2: Send collectively a set of 10 backward clocks, with a greivance/protest letter , where as 10 represents month of October and signed by IV.
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